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Robert Zirk: Decades ago, applying for a job went something like this:

Voice of job applicant: Hi there. I'm here to drop off my resume and cover letter.

Robert Zirk: And today, it's more like this:

(Sound effect of a computer mouse clicking, moving across the mouse pad, and clicking again.)

Robert Zirk: That's the sound of someone attaching their resume and clicking apply.

And in the future, or maybe even now, candidates won't even appear as themselves. Instead, they'll create a job profile and appear as a personalized avatar.

Innovation in the recruitment process is an interplay between job seekers and employers. Job seekers innovate to stand out. Maybe they're continually upskilling. Maybe they've sent along an impressive portfolio of work. Or maybe they've attached their resume to a shoe to "get their foot in the door."

(Sound of footsteps and a door slamming shut.)

Robert Zirk: Not all innovation is successful.

But companies are also getting increasingly competitive to stand out and attract job seekers, placing greater emphasis on innovative technologies, policies and even the platforms they use to welcome and accept applications.

On today's episode of Questions for now, we'll ask: how can your brand innovate to ensure you're standing out to top tier talent?

Welcome to Questions for now, a podcast from TELUS International where we ask today's big questions in digital customer experience. I'm Robert Zirk.

The Great Resignation. Quiet Quitting. The Big Stay.

It seems like there's a new buzz phrase about the workforce every few months, and this could be a reflection of how the labor market is constantly in flux. In 2022, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported more than 50 million people quit their jobs, setting a new record from the previous year. But, shifting toward the idea of The Big Stay, the ADP Research Institute reports job quits dropped 5% in the first three months of 2023 relative to the previous year. So where do you begin when you're trying to build an all-star team in spite of the challenges in the labor market and competitors who are looking to do the same?

I asked Pamela Rodas, senior director, global talent acquisition at TELUS International, who told me the first step is to think differently about the recruitment process.

Pamela Rodas: It all starts with how you post the job profile required for the position. I don't know if you recall those job profiles that were two pages, and you had to go through all of that just to understand if you were a fit. And a lot of them was very subjective and you didn't even understand if you were a fit, but you ended up applying anyway. So part of the skills that our talent acquisition teams need to have is ensure that they understand if, with the job postings that we're placing in our career site, we're actually delivering the message on who we wanna hire and why. What's in it for them?

Robert Zirk: It's important to provide that clarity right from the very beginning, starting with the job posting itself, according to Tricia Williams. Tricia is the director of research, evaluation and knowledge mobilization at Future Skills Centre, a Canadian organization that works to help job seekers gain the skills they need to succeed in a changing labor market.

Tricia Williams: I've heard the anecdote a couple times come to us through our network of partners and projects that in re-looking at job postings, in this kind of period of looking really carefully at the skills and credentials, people said, “You know, some of these are written in such a way that we don’t even really know what we mean.” Like writing job ads in very clear language to be very specific about what we’re looking for and not to hide behind a few wordy paragraphs, but get really clear about what this job is about and what the opportunities are for somebody who’s in that role. I think it's really important.

Robert Zirk: After you've edited those job profiles to be clear and concise, the next step is reviewing the applications you receive. And if you're committed to finding a list of keywords or a particular credential on the resumes that come in, you might be inadvertently screening out great candidates for the role. When labor supply isn't meeting labor demand, one tactic can be to look for new talent pools in unexpected places.

Tricia cited an example from Calgary, one of Canada's largest cities and one whose oil and gas industry has been a dominant source of jobs for decades.

Tricia Williams: Recently they had big announcements from Amazon Web Services and a lot of tech companies investing in Calgary. Well, they needed the talent for that. So we've been working with Calgary Economic Development to pilot training programs to transition people from the oil and gas sector into tech careers. But you had to have employers there who are willing to say, "Here's an atypical kind of profile of a tech worker and I believe " that they have the skills needed, and they were able to demonstrate that." But, in that case, you needed to look for the talent in unconventional places. It's maybe, look for those opportunities, those pockets of people that you maybe have been overlooking.

Robert Zirk: And shifting toward more skills-based hiring can help alleviate some of the challenges companies face, particularly as the implementation of automation creates new roles.

Tricia Williams: We also see that there's really a need for the advanced skills and labor to service the capital. So, for instance, you know, your grocery store may be reducing the number of cashiers and they have self-checkout machines, but you still need people to service those machines or how to troubleshoot when they're not working. And we've seen that across the economy as well. Not too long ago I was with some of our partners working in agriculture and talking about the need of some food processors in northern Saskatchewan to fly in technical support for advanced agriculture. So it is very much shifting the kinds of skills requirement, so I think it's important to think about that, as well as when you're thinking about the automation factor, is how are you going to source the advanced services needed? Or what are the opportunities, maybe, to even be working with other people or organizations to think along the skills trajectory?

Robert Zirk: Given traditional resumes are geared more toward experience and accomplishments, how can you translate them to skills-based thinking when you're looking to hire, especially for brand new roles that couldn't have existed a year or two ago? Technologies, like automation and generative AI, can help at scale.

Tricia referenced a collaboration Future Skills Centre was involved with that launched an AI-powered assessment tool that would edit job postings in a way that made them appeal to a wider pool of talent.

Tricia Williams: So for instance, one job posting was submitted by an employer and they said, "You know, the title of this job is administration and financial coordinator, and if you make it administration and financial organizer and remove the university education requirement, you're gonna get a lot more job postings." That was all done by AI. The modified job posting attracted 80% more applicants than the original, and the successful candidate that they identified was through the modified job posting.

So you can see that AI can be actually a really good tool for generating new ideas that we hadn’t thought of maybe through human intelligence of how to appeal to a wider range of candidates, remove some qualifications potentially or modify them, make them more skills-based, and actually create better matches between labor supply and labor demand.

Robert Zirk: Using automation and AI strategically can not only help to process a large volume of applications by looking for those matches between skills and experience, but it can also be used to find and invite potential candidates to apply who could be a good fit, but maybe haven't seen your posting or they screened themselves out of the process prematurely.

And predictive analytics can identify great hires, not only for now, but into the future. Pamela spoke to how her team uses AI, not only to assess to the role that's been posted, but also to assess the potential that candidates have to grow within TELUS International.

Pamela Rodas: That type of AI-based analysis that we get at the beginning is embedded in our human capital tool where we store that information and ensure that when we are seeking for those roles internally, because we have a huge percentage of our talent being promoted internally, we check for those skills and competencies beforehand so we can do a proper match, and we can understand if they will be successful in the recruiting process as well as in the role.

Robert Zirk: But as you expand your pool of applicants, you need the time and the resources to ensure you're responding promptly to your candidates and that they're having a positive recruitment experience, whether or not they're your eventual new hire.

Enter the chatbot. An Allegis survey notes that 58% of job candidates are open to communicating with chatbots at the beginning of the recruitment process.

Chatbots can better manage resourcing by automating the majority of the tasks at the top of the recruitment funnel, which can include gathering basic information from applicants, answering questions about the role and how the application process works, and scheduling follow-up interviews with your recruitment team. And, in addition to the chatbots that candidates can interact with, you can also use chatbots internally to assist your recruitment team, as Pamela mentions.

Pamela Rodas: We need the bandwidth to actually seek and understand what is it that you expect from your application with TELUS International and for you to have the same level of service from our initial interaction all the way to the end. So that's why we, as TELUS International, develop chatbots today. So we use the same for our talent acquisition team and the different languages that we have today to ensure that we're communicating with you in your own language.

Robert Zirk: But while technology can provide many benefits, you can't completely replace your recruiters with automation.

Pamela noted the importance of finding the right balance in defining roles for the technology you leverage and your recruiting team.

Pamela Rodas: There has to be flexibility in technology. I've had many conversations with certain leaders in other companies that say, "You know, I implemented three types of tools. They were super expensive and we still needed the same amount of recruiters to actually hire that amount of people. So why don't I just stick with people and forget about that expensive technology?" It doesn't work that way. It has to be a combination, and that's one thing we have learned over the years. You can have the fanciest tool and still not have the best approach with candidates. You have to be careful with the vendors that you choose, if they will be [a] fit for you as well. It's not only the candidate.

Robert Zirk: This balance between a human-centered focus and technology continues to grow in importance as digital natives enter the job market, globalization blurs borders, and worldly events emphasize the growing role of technology in the recruitment space.

Take, for example, the COVID-19 pandemic, which forced businesses around the world to shift to a virtual working environment – including their recruitment efforts.

During the pandemic, businesses had no way of physically showing candidates what working at a company would be like through office tours and site visits. Demonstrating that sense of belonging and culture now had to be done in a virtual setting, and that's not always the easiest thing to do over a video call. This drive to showcase corporate culture virtually led to the creation of SPACE by TELUS International, a virtual recruitment platform offering a fully immersive digital experience.

Applicants can meet with hiring managers, take part in job fairs, and create their own avatars so they can present themselves as they want to be seen.

Pamela Rodas: When we started seeing candidates, in part of the pilots that we were doing at the beginning, building their avatar to go into our virtual world of our recruiting center, was that they felt more comfortable with us when they were building their avatar. And at the end of the buildup, when they were going into our center, they were laughing, they were feeling relaxed, and that eased the way into them showing who they truly are in an interview, which, if you ask a recruiter, we wish we had our magic ball that gave us visibility of what the candidates can bring to the table and ensure that we got everything out of them.

Robert Zirk: Tricia noted the benefits of virtual recruitment for different job sectors that may have otherwise faced challenges in the process.

Tricia Williams: Anyone who has a company or an enterprise that has some sort of remote presence, certainly I would think virtual recruitment's an option. In my current role, I didn't even meet my coworkers for a year. I had been working with them for a year before they had even met me.

One of the places I think it has a lot of possibility is for identifying potential hires, even before they've immigrated to a certain country. So you may be looking at a global migration or, you know, an engineer moving from India to Silicon Valley, or somebody moving from Ghana to Canada, and I think you’re going to see a lot more potential of recruiting people in different markets and then bringing them into the immigration system, whereas most, at least industralized countries, the immigration tends to rely on arrive first and then we'll figure out where you can be plugged into the labor force.

Robert Zirk: According to a LinkedIn survey, 70% of talent professionals said virtual recruitment will overtake the traditional recruitment process. And seeing the impact SPACE has had in a relatively short amount of time, Pamela agrees that virtual recruitment is here to stay.

Pamela Rodas: It's an innovation of understanding more a person, versus just going through a checklist of skills. And when we go back to training, we need to develop our talent more now than ever. We need to focus on ensuring that, with the skills and the competencies that you bring to the table, how can we take you to where both of us want you to be in doing the right match?

Robert Zirk: And once you find that right match, the work you do doesn't end once they sign the job offer. You have to continually iterate on your corporate culture to ensure new hires and existing employees alike are engaged, as Tricia highlights.

Tricia Williams: It isn't just a matter of saying look for talent in new places, and then, oh, let them have fun in whatever kind of corporate culture you may have created.

People want a quality of work. They want to go someplace where they feel respected and valued. And that doesn't necessarily just happen automatically despite people's best intentions.

Robert Zirk: A focus on retention can also be an effective tactic to promote recruitment, and that's just one of many benefits. Employees are more likely to stay when they feel connected – to their teams, to the company culture and to their work, and their engagement reflects in their work, creating better customer outcomes and driving business growth.

Tricia Williams: A willingness to stay and really invest and be engaged and that driving that higher engagement level for your employees will be really critical for anyone looking to scale and kind of grow their brand.

Robert Zirk: And with candidate expectations continually evolving, Pamela says it means you need to make a concerted effort to keep up.

Pamela Rodas: Markets and what companies want and what candidates want change constantly. It changes every six months. And before that, it was every two years. You saw minor changes in benefits, in what candidates wanted out of their career, the tenure that they were willing to wait to escalate to a different position within their company. They were willing to wait five, seven years to actually get to the position that they wanted. .

Robert Zirk: But that kind of career patience is getting less and less common. Pamela has noticed that at the two year mark, candidates often say:

Pamela Rodas: I've learned everything I need to do and I've mastered the position. I'm ready for my next step." So part of the expectations that our candidates have now in the markets are "How can I find a company where I can grow fast and achieve my goals in the first 10 years versus in the first 20 years?"

Robert Zirk: That's corroborated by LinkedIn's 2023 Workplace Learning Report, which shows that after two years, employees who've moved or advanced within their company were 75% likely to stay as opposed to those who hadn't, where the likelihood drops to 56%.

And considerations go beyond just salary and benefits. People are much more conscious of their work culture and work-life balance.

Pamela Rodas: A lot of the flexibility that our candidates are asking for is a nomad environment, flexibility, work from home, hybrid model, work from office. How can I have more vacations throughout the year versus just once a year? How can I flex my schedule depending on my hobbies and depending on what I want to achieve in my personal life?

Robert Zirk: And candidates are looking for companies that are committed to giving back and supporting their communities. According to a 2020 report from Porter Novelli, 93% of employees believe companies must lead with purpose, which includes corporate social responsibility and social impact. And nearly 70% of employees said that if a company isn't purpose-driven, they wouldn't consider working there.

Pamela Rodas: When you're in an interview and the first thing you hear is "Let me share with you the type of projects on how we help our community on the ground in the country that we are sitting,” depending on where the interview is.

We talk about our community board, right? The way that we're helping different types of non-profit organizations, how we are helping to educate kids. Part of our culture has always been our values. And that translates in how we help our communities today. That has to also be part of our hiring strategy.

Robert Zirk: In Deloitte's Human Capital Trends report, nearly three quarters of respondents said a sense of belonging was important to their organization's success, and that same report links belonging to a 56% increase in job performance, a 50% reduction in turnover risk, and a 167% increase in employer net promoter score. So how do you make belonging intentional?

Pamela Rodas: When you're challenged every day in a positive manner, you can be yourself and you can talk openly about the challenges that you live every day.

You can be transparent about the challenges that you have, but the most important thing is finding a solution for them. And because of the type of culture and community we have that promotes you to look for different ways of solving things is what makes us different. And that's why innovation is key when you have a recruitment team.

If you think that lack of technology, lack of innovation, or just focusing on a psychometric assessment is what's gonna solve everything for you, you're completely wrong. You need to understand the markets. You need to understand behavior of candidates and respect what they're asking for. We need to respect the fact that new generations are asking for a more flexible environment. Let's talk about it. Let's see how we meet in the middle.

Robert Zirk: And Tricia reiterated how flexibility and internal communication are important to keeping team members engaged.

Tricia Williams: We just completed a round of public polling, at least with Canadians across the country, of their views around remote work and flexibility, and people are really saying they want some sort of remote work options. And that's especially true if anyone has quite a bit of caregiving responsibilities at home, that ability to be flexible.

But we also know that it's gonna be harder and harder to keep the engagement and the innovation and the collaboration up across companies as people are fully remote. So, we tend to see teams become a little bit more insular, siloed, they're working on their things with their kind of virtual environment.

And you have to think a lot more intentionally about how people are hearing about things when they're not dropping by the lunchroom or at the proverbial water cooler, right? Because, you know, you can only do so much in a Slack channel, or you have to think about what you're putting out on Slack. You have to think about, you know, the messages and how they reach your employees and teams.

Robert Zirk: This could take the form of creating an internal portal to share updates on projects and priorities, scheduling remote team building activities or implementing a recognition platform so your team members can recognize one another for a job well done.

Tricia Williams: That intentionality requires some investment in the internal infrastructure of an organization as it scales. And also, thinking intentionally about the employee experience and what they're experiencing as they're, you know, sitting in their home office, maybe going to fewer meetings than the executives are, right? And accessing less information.

Robert Zirk: If your organization is making an effort to stand out as a means of attracting and recruiting talent, that's a start. But many need guidance, and a partner backed by tech and a global infrastructure can help you execute.

Pamela Rodas: We have recruitment process outsourcing services as well, and it was all built because we also wanted to share with other companies the great things that we were doing so we could all do a better job in the market. We all need some help in ensuring we reach innovation. And sometimes it's a simple shift in strategy that you have to do, and we have so much experience doing that in the different companies that we have serviced today, in the different regions, that we could actually share, have a good talk and see how we can help you reach your goals.

You have to be open to changing the way that you operate every six months. And if you cannot keep up, outsourcing is also key so you can ensure you continue focusing on your priorities of your day-to-day, but bring innovation as well. You don't have enough talent? Then build a budget that can allow you to do small changes over the years, but actually take you to the place that you want to be.

Robert Zirk: So to wrap up, what do brands need to consider to ensure they're hiring the best fits for their available roles?

Pamela Rodas: I talked a lot about innovation, technology, candidate expectation, company expectation, and it can be a bit overwhelming, right? I always close with the remark of there's no way we're gonna find unicorns in the market. And we always get those requests of that perfect candidate. Don't get frustrated and find the way to strategize with your hiring manager in both of you meeting your goals in the timeline established by understanding how you can find the right candidate for them, which doesn't necessarily mean everything that you put on paper right at the beginning of the process.

It could be a nice conversation of understanding what you truly need, and that's part of a recruiter's job. So make sure that your recruiters are trained to have that type of conversation, that type of ownership and accountability to tell hiring managers what's available in the market at what price and what's in it for them by training and ensuring we develop our talent.

Robert Zirk: And Tricia emphasized the role of training and reiterated partnerships as a way to address labor needs.

Tricia Williams: It'll be really critical to watch how employers invest in skills training going forward. And I think we're really curious to see more partnerships between employers, maybe colleges or universities or other training providers, and thinking about how can the whole education and training system fill needs and address some of the gaps that employers are really seeing in terms of skills and labor needs. And I think, you know, there's always been a lot of criticism of colleges and universities – oh, people graduate and they don't have the right skills or we have to retrain them – and that could be very well and fair, but I think we're at a moment where, you know, with some engagement, I think we could really rally some education and colleges and universities to really better be attuned to the needs of employers in making sure that we kind of close those gaps between labor supply and labor demand.

Robert Zirk: Thank you so much to Pamela Rodas and Tricia Williams for joining me and sharing their insights today, and thank you for listening to Questions for now, a TELUS International podcast.

For more, be sure to subscribe or follow on your podcast player of choice. And until next time, that's all... for now.

On this episode, we discuss talent recruitment in a competitive job market — and the ways brands can innovate to stand out.

Episode cover image for Questions for now, a TELUS International podcast, featuring an illustrated character holding a telescope looking to find talent.

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On this episode, we discuss talent recruitment in a competitive job market — and the ways brands can innovate to stand out. Listen for the compelling perspectives of Tricia Williams, director, research, evaluation and knowledge mobilization at Future Skills Centre, and Pamela Rodas, senior director, global talent acquisition at TELUS International.

It's the right time to ask: How can brands leverage innovation to recruit top-tier talent? The job market is changing at a faster pace than ever, and to keep up, brands need to continually recalibrate their recruitment processes to ensure they're attracting top candidates. A shift in strategy and the leveraging of technology and automation can help companies position themselves as employers of choice.

To learn more about TELUS International and our digital CX solutions, contact us today.

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Robert Zirk: There's no question that automation is changing the way customers and brands interact with each other.

There's customer-facing chatbots, agent-facing assist bots and robotic process automation or RPA. And to give you an idea of just how rapidly this sector is growing, Grand View Research estimates the market for RPA, which as of 2022 sits at around $2.3 billion, will reach more than $30 billion by 2030.

Now more than ever, businesses are looking to implement automation to reduce costs, improve accuracy and scale how they deliver their customer experience.

And with change comes uncertainty. There are perceptions that automation will render jobs obsolete, that brands implementing automation can set and forget their deployments, or that automation is only an option for big brands with big budgets.

But that's not the case, according to the automation experts we spoke with. So today on Questions for now, we'll ask: What do people get wrong about automation?

To start out, we need to define what automation is. According to Nigel Devaraj, senior product manager for hyperautomation solutions at TELUS International, automation means completing repeatable tasks and reducing the need to interact with multiple systems in what are often referred to as swivel chair processes. As an example, think of the idea of entering data manually into one system, then swiveling your chair around to enter that same data into a different system.

Nigel Devaraj: The automation could be triggered based on an event or it could be triggered by a human being based on an activity they're performing, meaning "go validate this task" or "pull information for me." That is what automation is. And if you look at customer service, the world of CX, automation is really about streamlining day-to-day activities. We're talking about reducing swivel chair processes or eliminating swivel chair processes and simplifying the work or the activities involved in servicing our customer.

Robert Zirk: While the roots of automation date as far back to around 270 BC, it was the Industrial Revolution that marked the invention of the very first automated industrial process - that was the automatic flour mill in 1785.

That was well before we even had the term "automation" to describe it, which only started to become prominent in the mid to late 1940s.

But let's fast forward to one of the types of automation that's most applicable to customer experience today: robotic process automation or RPA.

Chandrakant Binwani: In terms of leap from using technology in customer service itself, the biggest thing that has happened in the past decade or so, the technology that most of you may be familiar with, is RPA.

Robert Zirk: That's Chandrakant Binwani, former director of intelligent automation solutions at Automation Anywhere, which is one of the leading software developers in the robotic process automation space.

Chandrakant Binwani: It's essentially a software robot doing what a human does today with mouse and keyboard sitting in front of a screen. So what has happened is now when you call in, instead of that CSR...

Robert Zirk: ...a customer service representative...

Chandrakant Binwani: ...having to do all those things manually, and remember they have to do this many times, they get so many calls day in and day out, so they have to do this repeatedly. Now they actually can use automation, RPA.

Robert Zirk: Some potentially automateable tasks can include gathering customer information, searching the knowledge base and completing after call work, like summarizing the outcome of the call and completing follow-ups with the customer.

Chandrakant Binwani: From an agent perspective, it helps them with their productivity, with their experience. They can focus on talking to you, connecting with you, understanding your problems, simplifying your experience, improving your experience as well as simplifying and improving the experience of the CSR.

Robert Zirk: The technologies that shaped what we know today as RPA became more widely used in tandem toward the late 1990s. These include screen scraping, which pulls data to be used for other applications; workflow automation, which could be anything from performing calculations to repeating functions through software macros; and some forms of artificial intelligence, like image or text recognition.

It wasn't until 2012 that the term to describe the confluence and advancement of these technologies, "robotic process automation", was created. Since then, RPA has increasingly been adopted by businesses, with a 2020 Deloitte global survey of executives showing that 78% say that they're already implementing RPA.

Chandrakant shared some of the benefits of RPA from a customer perspective.

Chandrakant Binwani: You are now getting answers faster. You're getting quality service. There is no incorrect information from a quality perspective that's been serviced. Bots will do their job perfectly every single time. That's one big change that I've seen.

How can brands leverage innovation to recruit top-tier talent?

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